The following is the transcript of an interview with Sen Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on July 27, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen, who is one of those appropriators we were just speaking about with the budget director. You just heard everything he laid out. There were no specifics on when these clawbacks could be coming, but they’re on the table. He says they don’t want to shut down. He didn’t seem to say they want, you know, a continuing resolution. Do you know what’s coming?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Not really. The one thing we know, and you asked Russ Vought about this, was he says that the process is too bipartisan right now, meaning that they want to use this process just to ram through the agenda and the overall agenda we saw when they passed the so-called Big, Beautiful Bill, which was beautiful for billionaires, but not really for anybody else, which is to provide tax cuts for very wealthy people at the expense of everybody else. And I do want to say Margaret, I heard him deny that that bill increased the deficit and debt. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office just said it increased our debt by 3.5 trillion before added interest.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He’s using an accounting gimmick in regard to the benchmark.
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: As- and Republicans have called out this accounting gimmick, so when–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –And it was accepted–
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Well, they sort of unilaterally imposed it, it was not accepted by Democrats, and it was a departure from previous efforts. But you know, then they come back and they say that they want to cut these important programs, NIH and other things to reduce the deficit, when, in fact, what they’re doing it for is to help try finance those tax cuts for very wealthy people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So it’s just heading us towards pretty unchartered territory and very unclear whether we will be able to avoid a government shutdown. Democrats are going to be blamed if there’s a shutdown, don’t you think? I mean, how do you sidestep this?
SEN. VAN HOLLEN : We certainly don’t want a government shutdown. And I think everybody has heard Russ Vought say that they want a less bipartisan process. What that tells me is they’re willing just to use their powers to try to shut down the government if they don’t get their way. And what’s ironic about this Margaret is you have Russ Vought calling for these deep cuts to education NIH, when he has asked for an increase for his OMB budget. He asked for a 13% increase for his OMB budget. He’s asked for more people to join the OMB staff, while he’s talking about RIFing people at other departments, like the Department of yeah- getting rid of firing people at the Department of Veterans Affairs and other important priorities. So it’s hard to take the OMB Director seriously when he says that they didn’t increase the debt and when he says he wants to cut things except for his own budget and staff.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But if they do head towards a government shutdown, why would there be any benefit unless it is to prioritize funding certain agencies and de-prioritizing other agencies. Well, that goes back to the executive, doesn’t it, that authority?
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Well, that ultimately, though you need, for example, four Republican senators to stand behind what he’s calling for. And what they’ve called for is sort of just a double cross on the process, right? That’s what the so-called rescissions, is just a Washington name for double cross. They support one thing, one day, President even signs off, and then they come back and say they changed their mind. And what we’re asking is for four Republican senators just to publicly declare that when they say they’re going to fund the Veterans Affairs Department that they actually mean it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That they won’t later agree to claw that money back.
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Exactly
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. So one of the things the Trump administration is clear and did get clawbacks of is foreign assistance. However, there’s an exception. In June, the administration announced it would give $30 million to this Israeli-backed organization called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, the GHF, I know you’re familiar with it. It delivers aid through armed military contractors who stand behind the Israeli military in four designated zones that Gazans then have to get themselves to in order to receive the aid. The State Department says they’re sending this money. Have they?
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: To my knowledge, they have, although we’ve asked for the details, we haven’t gotten them. In fact, just today, I’m sending a letter to Secretary Rubio, signed with 20 of my colleagues, calling for more information, but also calling for defunding this. American taxpayers should not be spending one penny to fund this private organization backed by mercenaries and by the IDF that has become a death trap. Over 1000 people have died from being shot and killed as starving people crowd to try to get food at just these four sites.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The- just to be clear here, the State Department says they’re going to send $30 million. Reuters had reported that there were documents they obtained showing 7 million had already been sent to these, what you call, armed mercenaries. But the Trump administration says this is the best way, this is the only way, to keep money- to keep food out of the hands of Hamas, which financially benefits off reselling it to desperate starving people. Is there another way to feed desperate starving people?
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Yes. And this is a- a big lie, the claim that when the UN organizations were delivering food to Palestinians civilians, that it was being systematically diverted to Hamas. I want to say loudly and clearly, this is a big lie. Trump is–
MARGARET BRENNAN: The systematic part of that.
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: The systematic, but that is their claim. They claim that essentially, large amounts of aid are being diverted to Hamas. What we know now, from testimony of American officials, Cindy McCain, and just this week, high level Israeli military officials, is that there’s no evidence to support that. AID, USAID, just released a report saying there’s no evidence to support that. So what the Netanyahu government did was scrap a delivery system that was working at delivering food and assistance in favor of this other effort. That was a pretext, this claim that Hamas was systematically diverting food. The real goal of this other effort is to use food as a weapon of war and population control.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a violation of international law.
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Yes, it is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a human rights abuse. Senator Lindsey Graham was on “Meet the Press” this morning, and I want to ask for your reaction to something he said, because he was very strong in his words. He said, because the ceasefire talks fell apart, Israel is reassessing. He said to expect a full military effort by Israel to take Gaza down, quote, “like we did in Tokyo and Berlin. They’re going to do in Gaza what we did in Tokyo and Berlin, take the place by force, start over again, present a better future.” The United States is a huge supporter of the State of Israel. Is there anything that could prevent what he says is about to happen?
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Well, the United States should make very clear that it’s unacceptable to use U.S. weapons to target or indiscriminately fire on civilians and civilian infrastructure. So–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because this sounds like an occupation.
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Well, we also know, just this week, members of the Netanyahu coalition, in fact, government ministers, called for essentially erasing Gaza, and they said, it will become a Jewish state, statelet. And part of- so- this was one of the–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Netanyahu did say he didn’t agree with his statement.
SEN. VAN HOLLEN: Well, here’s the problem though, Margaret, we continually see that Netanyahu, at the end of the day, does cater to his most far right wing of his- of his government, people like Ben Gvir, people like Smotrich. That is what has allowed him to stay in power, and so at the end of the day, he takes the most extreme positions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Van Hollen, thank you for your time today. We’ll be right back with a lot more “Face the Nation.” Stay with us.
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